This is Nechama commenting.
This is the moment when it becomes obvious how much of a threat some people consider the W4W to be. That Allison Kaplan Sommer must stoop to such unprofessional character assassination, complete with shoddy research from “a source close to the Haredi community” and a half-quote from a long, thoughtful (they skipped the part where Ronit says she herself has similar flaws as the WOW, but in a different area), and ultimately deleted blog post in which she addresses the classic Mussar (self-reflective) concept that any ideal other than Torah — be that money, or any -ism — is ultimately “strange worship,” Avodah Zarah… it tells you how desperate they are.
Allison, we understand that women like yourself, stuck in a narrative of your own creation, don’t believe that the Gedolim could possibly listen to an idea suggested by a woman. You’ve never heard of Sara Schnierer, of course. You can go right on believing that it was simply coincidence that Women For the Wall started up less than a month before 12,000 women came to the Wall.
And… oh my gosh, what a terrible crime… Ronit publishes a business blog on which she (*gasp*) doesn’t say that she’s Jewish! Never mind the millions of American Jews for whom Judaism truly is an afterthought… here you have a woman whose Judaism drives her entire life, but prefers to write a parenting blog for a broad American audience, free of evangelicals pestering her and discussions of Israeli politics. Half of Israeli businesses selling in America keep their national origin under wraps for all of the same reasons, but I suppose it’s because Ronit is charedi that this is a crime.
Allison… Ronit is all in favor of women being public, vocal, and determined — you just don’t like the cause she supports. So you pretend that you won’t ridicule her, even as you attempt to do so, and fail.
And before you accuse us of “name-calling” or intolerance, I suggest you check the mirror. We’ve all read what the leaders of WOW say. The myth that they “just want to pray” masks an agenda of hoping to pull charedi women out of a lifestyle they — and you — despise. You can’t get much less tolerant than that!
I’m not sure how you arrived at a headline of “fit to be tied” — at its most charitable interpretation, it’s a description of someone who is so angry that they need to be physically restrained. I didn’t quite get that from AKS’s writing.
Indeed her column was a bit overlong. I guess at heart what she wanted to see (and hear) was the voice of the young charedi women who participated in the silent prayer. On the side of WoW supporters, it’s been heartening to read from the next generation what they think of this all. If W4W can assemble and publish from your supporters, that would be helpful towards reaching understanding.
You have written numerous posts in a variety of publications for WOW.How interesting it is to see that you have visited this site. I believe that WOW and their liberal supporters feel very threatened by Women for the Wall. After all, they managed to bring more women to the wall than WOW did in their two decades plus.They did it in 48 hours not 22 unsuccessful years.They are an army of young women who revel in their womanhood instead of sporting men’s haircuts,clothes and mitzvot.
If you missed the sheer hatred in AKS’s article perhaps we were reading different articles? Ms.Sommer’s patron Ha’Aretz refused to publish many other articles that supported Mrs.Peskin. It must be difficult to acept the fact that not everybody shares your opinions.Women for the Walls is only a few weeks old.Watch this movement take off!
I have not written anything “for WOW”– and they can well vouch for that! I have written in places expressing in agreement with their cause. But one area where I disagree with (some of) them is in feeling “threatened” by W4W. Why should I feel threatened? And do they feel threatened? They have scored an achievement, and I salute them: the state of Israeli (in the form of the Appeals Court) conceded that a woman could not be arrested for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.
I’m not sure why you think it is “difficult to accept the fact that not everybody shares” my opinions. If I found it difficult, why would I come here for learning & dialogue?
You call it dialogue and it is. But when I have posted on “progressive” sites my comments are deleleted and I have been banned. What I meant about what you have “written” was simply meant as posting comments. That is one difference between this site and the one’s I have seen your comments on. When dealing with liberals they can only accept those opinions they agree with. If they don’t like your opinion in their publications they block you. At that point, the circle of civility is narrowed to those with whom they agree. Liberals preach tolerance, but only tolerate those opinions that reflect their own.
Women can wear a tallit and Tefflin in Israel.It was never the case. Ms.Hoffman was arrested for violating a court order and incitement. You should ask Ronit Peskin if WOW feels threatened. They threatened legal action. Not the actions of a group that is calm under the collar.
They are so dishonest. They were fuming when they saw the thousands and thousands of proud Jewish girls who showed up at the Kotel and claimed that they had achieved their goal of bringing women to the wall on Rosh Chodesh.HAHAHA. The spokesperson,Ms.Sachs (?) said that with such a phony smile on her face. If they are so overjoyed why not say Mazal Tov to Mrs.Peskin. Why threaten her?
Also Jon. Just because something is legal is it wise? It is legal to tell my best friend he can be cheap at times and that he has a hooked nose.So what? Is it that path of peace? (By the way,the status of WOW is still in legal limbo. I would not count my chickens just yet.)
With 1600 women expressing an opposite point of view, the phony WOW narrative and their claim that THEY speak for Jewish women has fallen apart in the most laughable way.
Which sites have you been banned from?
It’s possible that it’s your tone and not your viewpoint. You can disagree with people, but when you do say things like calling them “phony” they might not wish to put up with you. There are plenty of others who have been making your argument in more civil terms.
When WOW threatens Ronit one minute and appears calm,collected and all smiles the next while being interviewed by reporters that is “phony”. That is not the reason I get banned. I point out that reform Judaism is not real Judaism.(Comments Deleted). What gets people banned is the assertion that the members of WOW (even a portion if not all) are people with gender issues and I point it out. There are people who find this very,very insulting. This tells me that I hit a raw nerve.I don’t say that with any glee. You can tell from reactions when you have “pressed a button”. My goal is to defend Torah true Judaism and even to explain it if questioned. But the “progressives” seek to silence those of a different opinion no matter how civil that opinion is expressed.
Regarding for “phony” I’m unsure about the nature of this threat you speak, but, yes, even calm and collected people/groups are free to express a variety of emotions and take actions in defense of themselves.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by “people with gender issues.” If you mean that some people are confused about their gender, that could be seen as personal, and immaterial to public discussion. I would exhaust myself (and others) in online debates if I asserted that others had “anger issues” or “no better things to do.”
But, if you mean that they have issues with a notions of gender that are not fixed from antiquity, indeed, that is what progressivism and feminism assert.
If a woman dresses like a man,marries a woman and cuts their hair with haircuts that are for men it is not a stretch to believe that they wish to do men’s mitzvot because they are men’s mitzvot.That is the gender issue I wrote about.I think it is obvious and there is no reson to become defensive over it.